Mike Rundle says

Lame, I just sent them a fun message via their contact form.

Michael says

Did you contact them? The home page is down and reads "updating" already.

Josh Williams says

Yes. And an update is posted above.

louis says

do you have a screen shot?

Chris Griffin says

Well, at least he didn't pull a Faulkner.

Mike says

It's amazing that anyone thinks they can get away with this crap, especially today in the age of blogging. A simple search on Google reveals that all the blog chatter about the stolen Faulkner Winery website is showing up prominently in their search results. Design thieves will always get caught with their pants down. Sadly, it seems that they already know they'll get caught, yet they don't care and simply chalk it up to coincidence that a site looks remarkably similar to another.

Danny says

I think certain designers (if you want to call them that) choose to copy other sites for two reasons:

1. They lack the creative potential to produce original work.
2. There is currently no law prohibiting copying the likeness of another web site.

Copyrighting an idea -- and we all know that isn't currently possible -- would be like copyrighting specific grammar or a word (phrases are different).

The Portal Labs layout may have looked similar to the Icon Buffet, but the only law it violated was the one among designers.

I'm not defending them. Copying is definitely tacky. I'm simply saying to never jump to any conclusion, as the owner of the site was clearly not at fault. A lot of embarassment can come from a little event.

Jason says

I have changed the design to the best of my ability to make it look as different as possible from the IconBuffet site. Hopefully we managed to get it unique enough, because as I told Josh, I'm no designer- that's why we hired out for a (evidently copied) design.

I sent Josh an email for him to look at the new design before I turn it on- The last thing we want to do is look like we are willfully copying another site, and I'd rather have his approval to make sure everything is on the level.

Joseph says

To Jason:

I for one appreciate your understanding in this situation. You could have easily just ignored Firewheel's concerns and kept it up. Good stuff. I'm sure you wouldn't be very happy with the way this has happened either, and as dicussed, you aren't a designer so it's great that you have appreciated designers sensibilities.

Good luck with everything!

Josh Williams says

Jason -- I seem to have missed your latest email. Can you resend it. I'm sure the new design is fine. I'm very sorry about your circumstances, and hope you are able to remedy it with some luck.

Danny -- When design elements, including actual graphics and code is taken and reused, copyrights have been violated. There are very real laws that protect against this. It may be costly to defend legally, but it is very much against the law. Copyrighting an idea also happens all the time. Nintendo does it with all their games. The copyright the design, music, artwork, and concepts of all their games.

If you created a game that featured a plumber and a princess, no matter how different they look from Mario and Peach, you have violated Nintendo's copyright (which is filed at a federal level).

Jason says

Josh, I've sent the email again. If you don't get it I'll try another email account.

simon says

Wouldn't it have been better to contact them before you broadcasted this. Sounds like you've hit a dry spell in your blogging.

Kyle says

Can someone post a capture of the previous design? From the small graphic in this post, it doesn't look THAT serious. It does look close, but I don't think that I would call it a "rip".

Josh Williams says

Here's the previous design. Jason has been very kind to edit the design quite a bit now to make it different.

Danny says

Josh, unless I misread something, your original post only said the site "bears a remarkable likeness" to IconBuffet. You also stated that they had lifted design and code, but I had mistaken that for sarcasm, as I was in disblief.

Of course, stealing graphics and actual code is a legitmate offense. I can't believe the lengths people take to try to scam.

Honestly, the only image I had to go on was the tiny thumbnail you posted.

I have to disagree with you on your copyrighting ideas response. You cannot copyright ideas or concepts, as well as methods and procedures. However, a procedure could be patented. Any legal council will tell you this.

I could indeed create a game about a plumber and a princess, as that idea is available to all creators. I COULD NOT, however, create a game about a plumber wearing a blue and red suit and a princess outfitted in a pink dress in distress inside a castle. It is the artwork and image of each character and the USAGE OF EACH ELEMENT that is actually copyrighted -- not the ideas.

Could Nintendo sue me? Sure, why not. They have the time, money, and resources. Anyone can sue anyone else for anything. All you need is two of the above listed requisites.

I think you are getting copyrighting confused with intellectual property, which is actually a very new, controversial area of law at this time (some courts will not uphold intellectual property allegations) compared to copyright, patent, and trademark.

I hate challenging fellow designers, especially a fellow North Texan! :) But I have to say it seems you are misinformed when it comes to legal matters. No offense intended, just friendly jousting.

Josh Williams says

Danny -- I'll joust back. I've been sued before over IP. I've spent multiple days (and thousands upon thousands of dollars) in federal court defending trademark lawsuits and cyberpiracy issues. I have a pretty strong grasp of IP matters.

While patents definitely work best at protecting business processes, copyright certainly protects more than just art, music, and other creative stuff. The concept of of a TV show like LOST is copyrighted... not just the actual name of the show, characters, etc. The actual CONCEPT itself is copyrighted. Now, a case can be made for how defensible that copyright is, but that's for the attorneys to decide.

If you read the fine print, Nintendo copyrights the "scenario" of their first party games (along with the music, game, characters, etc.). I'll agree that I'm not exactly sure how that can be defended, but obviously its been copyrighted. And "scenario" is much more far reaching than simply describing the color of overalls the plumber is wearing.

Danny says

"Now, a case can be made for how defensible that copyright is, but that's for the attorneys to decide."

You're right. That was initially my point. We each have a different perspective on this topic, but when it comes down to it, it's up to the court and it's up to the respective attorneys.

More often than not these types of scenarios are done on a case-by-case basis, and for people like us who create and make, it pretty much sucks. We need a definitive set of laws and rules protecting our work, especially internet-based projects. But, web sites and the such are still in their infancy compared to, say, literary works.

I've never been sued, but I've been on the opposite end, protecting the rights of my clients. Really, thinking about it all (legal stuff) gives me a huge headache!

Julius says

He that talks much lies much... Julius

Owen says

Four eyes see more (better) than two... Owen

Gilbert says

A clean fast is better than a dirty breakfast... Gilbert